124: Masterclass in SEO localization with TranslaStars

November 11, 2021

27:32

Esther Ashmore with Alfonso González Bartolessis

In this episode of Globally Speaking, Esther Ashmore connects with Alfonso González Bartolessis, the founder of TranslaStars. Alfonso created an online school that offers many courses for linguists and translators, including a bootcamp course for SEO localization. Tune in and get a masterclass on what is SEO localization, how to be culturally relevant in your SEO strategy, debunking the myths of common SEO best practices, and much more.

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Show transcript

Speaker	Transcript
Esther Ashmore	Hi, Alfonso. Thank you for joining us today for this discussion on SEO localization.
Alfonso Gonzále	Hi Esther, and thank you for inviting me. Thank you for having me here. It’s a pleasure for me to be talking about one of my passions in the translation industry.
Esther Ashmore	Brilliant. I thought a good way to kick things off would be an intro into you; who you are, what your background is, and your experience in the field. So if you could just fill us in?
Alfonso Gonzále	Well, I’m Alfonso. I’m a Spaniard based in Germany, in Berlin. And I have been working on the translation industry for more than 20 years now as a translator project manager. And now, for the last 10 years, more or less, as a localization manager.
Alfonso Gonzále	So right now I am the localization manager at Pathwire, which is an American company that provides email infrastructure to other big companies. And before, I was the localization manager at Formlabs. And what I do, basically, is to create the workflow and to align teams to make the translation workflow as smooth as possible and as efficient as possible.
Alfonso Gonzále	As people, I’m sure, can imagine, it’s about aligning many different systems, content management systems, and other systems with our translation management system, then to have the right resources for our projects. Well, of course, everything that is around that, like creating guidelines and things like that.
Alfonso Gonzále	So it’s something that I love doing. And I consider myself quite lucky to be doing something that I love doing and being paid for it.
Esther Ashmore	For sure. Yeah, no, that is a great position to be in.
Esther Ashmore	And I think, previous to doing this recording, we were both saying how comprehensive this subject can be, the subject of SEO localization. So if you … and I’m sure you do have to summarize it for your webinars and your education. How would you summarize SEO localization for someone?
Alfonso Gonzále	Maybe before talking about SEO localization first, I like to put SEO inside SEM. SEM is the acronym for search engine marketing. And it’s a term that encompass not only SEO, but also SEA. SEO stands for search engine optimization. And SEA stands for search engine advertising. So SEM, it’s the marketing tactics that have to do with search. So SEO and SEA are part of those.
Alfonso Gonzále	So with SEO, in a very, very basic way, what we are trying to do is to rank as high as possible with the content we create on search engines. With SEA, we try to make people aware of who we are, of one of our product services, with paid tactics. So that’s advertising, the advertising that people can see on Google. Or not only on Google, but on any social media, like Facebook, LinkedIn. So, that’s SEA.
Alfonso Gonzále	And then if we want to define a little better what is SEO localization, I like always to differentiate it or to make a difference between SEO localization and marketing translation. Because usually there is some confusion about that and a lot of people put them together.
Alfonso Gonzále	So marketing translation, or localization, is when you have some copy, like product brochures or leaflets or eBooks and guides, whatever, and you need to translate that from one language to a target locale.
Alfonso Gonzále	However, SEO localization, it’s about translating or localizing your website content, usually it’s block posts or webpages and keywords, and all the metadata related to the block posts and webpages and that web content, into a specific locale, paying great attention to the cultural references and social attitudes of the locale. But also with the main aim of ranking high when search queries are performed.
Alfonso Gonzále	So, that will be SEO localization. So there is not an easy definition of what it is. But it’s becoming more and more important these days.
Esther Ashmore	Yeah. And do you feel that someone who’s learning SEO localization, or they’re first getting to grips with SEO localization, do you feel they need maybe a basic knowledge of SEA and SEM?
Alfonso Gonzále	Yeah, I think so. At least you know how search engines work. What do algorithms do? How they have evolved? It’s something that we can comment later on, if you want? But most search engines started basing their searches on lexical search. So they return just results for the exact, or very similar, matches to the query you had performed. And, nowadays, Google is trying something which is making the algorithms know our intent. So, that’s completely different. So we have gone from keywords, to topics, to having interconnected experiences.
Alfonso Gonzále	But yeah, going back to your question. Absolutely. I think all those who nowadays want to work on the marketing side; marketing translation, marketing localization, should know about SEO. They don’t need to be experts. I’m not a technical expert on SEO. And in my company we have teams that work on SEO, on the technical side. And so they can implement measures that of course are more successful than anything I could do.
Alfonso Gonzále	But, as translators, we can do a lot to help our companies, our customers. And we need to know about SEO, about SEA, SEM. About the differences. How things work. Yeah. Yeah. That’s absolutely important.
Esther Ashmore	Okay. So, basically, it’s having an overall basic view of the digital environment that you’ll be in, just to see how it all works and hand in hand.
Esther Ashmore	Why would you say that SEO localization is relevant in 2021? If we are in SEO in any capacity, we’re aware of Google updates and changes and algorithm updates. For example, the MUM update which is slowly being tested and released. Why, in your opinion, is SEO localization still relevant in 2021 with all of this?
Alfonso Gonzále	Yeah, that’s another very good question. Yes, as you are saying, Google is continuously evolving its algorithms. Because it’s not just one algorithm, but many algorithms. And as I was mentioning before, we have gone from lexical search to what Google is trying to do, is to trying to understand what we mean. So it’s more a natural language understanding approach that they are taking.
Alfonso Gonzále	And we are talking about language. So language is super important. And before, we needed to base our content on keywords. But now that’s changing. And now it’s more important to write useful content to focus on topics and not on keywords, and to help Google find our sites, our content.
Alfonso Gonzále	So, yeah, language still plays a very important part. Google is becoming more and more smart or intelligent. And the idea is that, for example, with the MUM update, it’s able also to understand information in different languages. So that’s crazy. That’s amazing. And even more for us translators.
Alfonso Gonzále	So that’s why it’s so important, because we need to provide content that Google can identify, can find useful for their users. And language plays a vital role. So, yeah, I mean, we are one of the most important pieces in this puzzle. So, yep, that’s why we are important.
Esther Ashmore	Okay. Yeah, that makes complete sense. I guess, as with all the things that are changing, especially with all the updates, SEO … and I think also Google has stated an SEO localization will always be relevant. But they’ll just evolve, just as web developers have with all the updates. Thank you for that explanation.
Esther Ashmore	When I was looking into SEO localization to have this conversation, one of the things I found … which I think I’ve mentioned to you before … is a contradiction online, which happens a lot with SEO. And we’re going to go into some myths a bit later in the conversation. But there was some websites giving advice. And they were saying that translation and localization are the same thing. And some were saying that they’re different. So can you break that down for us, please?
Alfonso Gonzále	We are always creating new words in the translation industry. Let’s say, translation is the word that encompass everything. But then inside translation, we can identify different fields or different experiences. So localization is one of them. Or, for example, transcreation is another.
Alfonso Gonzále	So, yeah, in this case, I would use translation as the classical definition of taking words from one language and transferring those same words into another language. Maybe I will say it’s like a one by one change.
Alfonso Gonzále	However, localization takes other thing into account. It takes, as I was saying before, cultural references. And you don’t need just to focus on word by word, but you need to go farther.
Alfonso Gonzále	And with SEO localization it’s even more interesting, because we cannot just simply offer, for example, translation equivalence for if we are talking, for example, about keywords, we need to offer or to find something that works in the target language. And we also need to know, for example, the difference between content words or function words when we are localizing metadata, like meta description or the [Slack’s] in the URLs or the meta title.
Alfonso Gonzále	So that’s SEO localization. SEO localization is not just changing one word for another word in the target language. You need to know keyword research, you need to know the trends of words, because something that works in English, maybe doesn’t work with a literal translation in, let’s say, Spanish; which is my native language.
Alfonso Gonzále	So this goes beyond what the traditional or the classical view of translation, to something which is a little bit more complicated that requires more research and knowledge that goes beyond the mere translation of words.
Esther Ashmore	Okay. Amazing.
Esther Ashmore	Going on from that, just to delve a bit deeper, would you say that somebody working in SEO localization, as a translator, would you say that they have to have a knowledge of the culture for the localization as well? Maybe search habits?
Alfonso Gonzále	Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the target culture … I mean, when we talk about languages, I have always said that, of course it’s important to be bilingual, or almost bilingual, if you are working with a language combination. But another thing which is even more important for us is to be bicultural. So if you don’t know the target culture then it’s almost impossible to create good content.
Alfonso Gonzále	So I remember I had a teacher at university who used to bring us pieces of texts from the Iberia magazine, the airline. And the only question he made us was, “Okay, take a look to the English version.” On the magazine they showed the article in English and in Spanish, on, on the same page. And his question was, “Okay, was this written in English or Spanish originally?” And it was very difficult to say.
Alfonso Gonzále	So that should be our aim, someone who … I mean, this was many years ago. But nowadays, with localization … and I see localization, of course, being cultural, where it’s super important. And you need to create content that engages your target audience and that make them feel like they are reading something that has been written for them and by someone who is from their culture, from their sphere. So, yeah, that’s super important, I mean, that cultural background. And it’s as important as to know, very well, the language you are translating into.
Esther Ashmore	Yeah. When you put it that way, it’s very true. Reading something that’s been translated directly into your language and reading something that’s been written for you are two completely different things. So that’s really interesting.
Esther Ashmore	Okay. So we’ve said a few times, and I think we’ve laughed about it, how broad and vast the subject of SEO and SEO localization is. But in that, there is also space for a lot of myths and also outdated modes of doing SEO localization that don’t work anymore. I think you mentioned one earlier, which is keyword stuffing. I mean, that’s …
Alfonso Gonzále	I use it in my webinar whenever I do something with people. And I take examples, pictures, from the metadata, from pages in … No. No. Well, five, 10 years ago, and you can see a crazy amount of keywords, of name of the competitors, of everything all together. Also, something that I talk about, that some hidden text in pages. Because, you know, hidden text, maybe you are mentioning something but it’s hidden. Of course, nowadays, Google identifies on the algorithms. And you’re not only not going to rank high, but you’re going to go down and you’re not going to appear anywhere.
Alfonso Gonzále	So, yeah, keyword stuffing, which means using a lot of keywords in a piece of text or in your metadata, doesn’t work anymore. So you need to create content that is well structure, that answers questions, and that it’s around topics, not around keywords. Keywords are still, of course, important. And, for example, in my webinars, I recommend using the keywords in H1, in headings, in the URLs. But it should not be just the main thing in the content you create or you localize. It should be part of it.
Alfonso Gonzále	And then keywords also, Google is becoming more intelligent. Now, Google understands synonyms. So a myth was before that, okay, if you have a word you have to translate or to use an equivalent, always the same equivalent. No. I mean, that’s no longer necessary. You can have the word email in English, and in Spanish you can have email, [Spanish]. And Google knows you are talking about the same thing. And it’s even better if you a variety of terms because it enriches your text. It’s not always repeating the same term.
Alfonso Gonzále	And then Google is going to identify that. I mean, you are going to appear high in the ranking position. So I will say that’s one, keyword stuffing, something … well, what I said, like this hidden text. But that’s a little bit [inaudible]. Some other things are what I was saying, yes using one keyword hidden in all the text, which is super boring to read just one keyword in a text. And then basing everything on keywords.
Alfonso Gonzále	I don’t know, I think those are the main myths and things that do not work anymore. And I cannot think right now of any other examples. Yeah, I mean, keyword stuffing, I will say it’s the most extincted one.
Esther Ashmore	I’m sure once you get off this call, you’ll think of many. You’ll think, “Oh, why didn’t I mention that?”
Esther Ashmore	I think from what you’ve said so far, correct me if I’m wrong, but there’s a thread going through everything you’ve said so far, and that is that no matter what you are writing for, in whatever language, and whoever you are writing for, your content has to be authentic to your audience. That’s maybe one of the bottom lines of SEO localization, is authenticity. And that’s how you, more or less, win on search engines like Google. Would you agree?
Alfonso Gonzále	Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely, of course. Authenticity. Something that I read very often when I’m reading this on website about SEOs and it’s repeated everywhere, it’s when you create and when you localize content, do not create or do not localize it for Google, write it or localize it for your readers. So you need to create something authentic, as you were saying, something that is engaging, something that is useful. Otherwise, do not just stuff or pile information for the sake of information. No one wants to read that.
Alfonso Gonzále	And then one of the main aims of SEO is to get customers to visit your site and to buy your products or your services. So if you offer boring information or something that could be misleading, or you use tricks to attract people, well, that’s not going to position you as one of the best in the industry. And you’re going to achieve just the opposite. So, yeah, authenticity in content creation and localization is key, of course.
Esther Ashmore	And I think maybe writing for your audience takes you full circle to being culturally aware of the audience that you’re writing for. So that all makes sense when you lay it all out like that.
Esther Ashmore	Finally, can you give us a great SEO localization success story?
Alfonso Gonzále	Yeah. Well, I can think of many of them. Something that we could talk about is … maybe this is connected also to the previous question about the myths … and it’s, sometimes we think ranking on top of Google searches is the best thing that can happen to you. And, I will say, it’s 99% true. But, yeah, there is 0.1% when it is not true.
Alfonso Gonzále	So we have had the case of some webpages that were position one in the ranking. So the first thing you see after the ads. But, suddenly, Google took our content and made it a snippet. Snippet is a piece of text showing or answering that question that people frequently look for, for example.
Alfonso Gonzále	So what’s the effect of that? Many people can think, “Okay. So if you appear in a snippet, the piece of text, then that’s fantastic.” Yeah. I mean, in a way it positions us as the experts on a topic. So that’s, of course, great. And appearing the first is always good news. Well, not the first, position zero as they call it. It also means that if you see what you are looking for on a quick view, just looking at Google search, you don’t need to click and you don’t need to go to visit our websites. So we are losing traffic. And if we are losing traffic, we are losing possibilities of making people buy our products, buy our services. So we don’t want that to happen.
Alfonso Gonzále	So an interesting story is that we had to revamp content to avoid being in a snippet position. So we had to do something in order to avoid being so good. So sometimes that’s curious, because people will think, “Hey, yes, I have to be on the first.” No, well, maybe that’s not that interesting in the end. What it is interesting is to get leads, people who are really interested in your content, that you can compare, that can buy your product, your services. So that’s the important thing.
Alfonso Gonzále	And then, of course, we have many experiences of content that has been very well crafted, created, written, with very good localizations. And then it’s performing really well on Google searches because we have done everything.
Alfonso Gonzále	I mean, and it’s something that I didn’t mention before, but it’s not just about translating words, let’s say, like going to the basic definition, but also images. And I’m not only talking about the tags of images, but changing the images themselves. So this is more localization. But, yeah, and you need to change images. You sometimes need to change colors. You need to change the font to get to the audience you want to get. So there is a lot more than even SEO localization. There is this localization processing, which you have to apply different strategies to position or to rank higher. So, yep.
Esther Ashmore	That’s interesting, because your success story is a great example of when you’re working in SEO and SEO localization, especially having to think outside the box. And most people, if they saw they were a snippet, they can sit back. Their job is done. It’s perfect. It’s the dream. But you also have to keep in mind the needs of the business. Which is obviously the case here, you weren’t getting enough leads. So you have to do what’s best for the business and reverse engineer until you are generating those leads. So it’s always thinking independently, but also with best practices of SEO localization in mind.
Esther Ashmore	So that’s a really good success story because it’s unusual. And it just goes to show that we can be thrown curveballs sometimes and it’s how we handle them.
Alfonso Gonzále	Yeah, absolutely. As you are saying, we are part of a team. And this is not just translating content and saying, “Okay. Yeah, job done and I now can go to sleep.” No, there are results, there are performance indicators that tell us, “Okay, now we are not performing that well.” And we are constantly revising how we are performing and seeing, “Okay, our content is performing number one, or number two, or number three. And whenever something like that happens, we are revamping the content.
Alfonso Gonzále	So it’s work that we have to be doing constantly and we have to maybe change paragraphs, or we realize that we didn’t have an index of contents that nowadays is super important. So people can, on a quick look, see what our content is going to cover. Also, that’s super important for Google to understand what you are covering, to take people to your content.
Alfonso Gonzále	So, yeah, it’s a really interesting job. I love it. And because it doesn’t stop on being a good translator, but now you have to be more imaginative and creative, and you need to apply measures that five years ago we will not have thought of and, most of us, we didn’t even know about. So yeah, that’s becoming very, very important.
Alfonso Gonzále	And, again, what you were saying at the beginning, that this is a very important skills all those who want to work on the marketing translation should have.
Esther Ashmore	Yeah. Brilliant. Well, thank you so much, Alfonso. I feel like we’ve really managed to delve into SEO localization in a short period of time. Yeah, thank you so much for your time. It’s been really enlightening.
Alfonso Gonzále	Yeah. Thank you, Esther, for inviting me. And it has been a pleasure talking to you.
Esther Ashmore	Brilliant. Thank you.

Guests

Alfonso González Bartolessis

CEO & Founder

Besides being the founder of TranslaStars, Alfonso González Bartolessis is a multifaceted professional who has developed his professional career as a translator, translation manager, and university teacher.

As a translator he has excelled in the translation of European and international standards, scientific texts, audiovisual projects, and marketing content.

Alfonso has founded and co-founded several companies and currently works as a translation manager in Germany for Pathwire (where he has created the localization department for more than 9 languages and developed the current translation workflow). He also holds several master’s degrees in education, translation and international business management.

In addition, he is passionate about history, movies, arcade games, loves to travel, attend concerts and sporting events, and spend time with his wife, daughter, friends and family.

Hosts

Esther Ashmore

SEO Specialist

Esther is an SEO Specialist and full-stack digital marketer with over eight years’ experience in B2C and B2B. A strong passion for digital ethnography means she’s constantly swotting-up to keep her finger on the pulse of digital culture. As a self confessed foodie, when Esther isn’t working you can find her trying new eateries in and around her corner of London, South of the river.

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124: Masterclass in SEO localization with TranslaStars

Guests

Alfonso González Bartolessis

Hosts

Esther Ashmore

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